No News Is Bad News
Prime Minister Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim’s populist approach is the reason he is respected and always a crowd-puller on the international stage, especially when he makes official visits overseas. - BERNAMA pic (For image info, go to https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2023/02/877847/populist-approach-earns-anwar-respect-international-stage)
PM Anwar on the international stage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyp3h3urIxg (A Conversation with Malaysian Prime Minister Anwar Ibrahim - Bloomberg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maZUXXfH_yk (Malaysian PM Anwar Ibrahim Takes Stock Of Progress 10 Months Into Term | CNA Correspondent)https://edition.cnn.com/videos/tv/2023/09/22/anwar-ibrahim-malaysia-prime-minister-politics-lgbtq-amanpour.cnn (From prison to prime minister: Amanpour speaks with Malaysia's Anwar Ibrahim)https://www.cnbc.com/video/2023/08/29/malaysian-prime-minister-anwar-ibrahim-discusses-affirmative-action.html (Affirmative action should be extended from being ‘race-based’ to ‘need-based’: Malaysia’s Anwar)
KUALA LUMPUR, Sept 28, 2023: Hardly a year in office, Malaysia’s 10th Prime Minister Anwar Ibrahim has tirelessly appeared on the international stage and for interviews.
It is not difficult to understand why he is working that hard - to promote Malaysia internationally to investors and to restore their confidence.
Malaysia needs as much foreign investments as possible to heal its RM1.5 trillion national debt economy - no thanks to previous federal governments, especially those led by Dr Mahathir Mohamad who governed for a total of 26 years and Najib “1MDB’ Razak.
View the above video clips and excerpts of interviews below:
Exclusive – A Conversation with Malaysian Prime Minister Anwar Ibrahim
February 13, 2023
The 10th Prime Minister of Malaysia, Dato Seri Anwar Ibrahim, was on formal visit to Thailand. He discussed various issues, from the South of Thailand, economic cooperation between the two countries, ASEAN’s role in dealing with the Myanmar crisis to his fight against corruption in Malaysia.
PM Anwar Ibrahim talked to Nattha Komolvadhin in an exclusive interview with Thai PBS World. The conversation begins with how his life has changed since taking the office, after waiting for this post for more than 20 years.
Being Prime Minister
Q: Your Excellency Prime Minister Anwar Ibrahim, thank you very much for joining me. I have been waiting for more than 20 years to address you as Prime Minister. How has your life changed since becoming Prime Minister and when you were Prime Minister in waiting?
A: Well, if you have waited for too long, when you achieve that it just feels like normal. You have been thinking about it, you plan and I am comfortable, as I was before. So, nothing has really changed. My mannerisms, my contact, although the burden is of course something else, you have to deal with problems of the state and have to work really, really hard.
Q: Your premiership is approaching its 100 days, is it still a honeymoon period for you?
A: Not really, because from day one my colleagues got a clear message, we are all committed and we work very hard. We don’t have a clear timeframe of weeks or months or years. The point is, from day one, we have to set the parameters right, because we are talking about good governance, and leading the country out of corruption, which has become systemic and which means the challenge is serious and we have also some glimmers of racial tensions and religious animosity, which we have to deal with, but I believe the majority of Malaysians remain sane and understanding that we can stick to our beliefs but we have the country to preserve and secure.
The South of Thailand
Q: You discussed (the situation in southern Thailand) with Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-O-Cha. It is highly expected your visit will lead to a peace process, can you tell me what you discussed with him?
A: I discussed with PM Prayuth and DPM Prawit the so-called issue in the South. We discussed it extensively, because it has been going on for decades. It is internal matter within Thailand, so we can come in only as facilitator when requested and I told PM Prayuth that, in a small way with your agreement, I will do whatever is necessary to talk to our friends in the South, engaging with them and engaging with those in Bangkok. There is a trust deficit. Is it true that there is not going to be intimidation, is it true that there will be fairness for the different religions, cultures are to be protected. I believe it is true. It is not about what the government has said, but it has to come from their action. We will have to ensure that the negotiations and meetings take place more often and some of the issues raised must be dealt with and addressed. But what cannot be considered or compromised is our position against any form of violence.
Q: Malaysia has appointed a new facilitator, can you do more on top of that?
A: Well, only one facilitator. A former army chief, who is a friend to many key generals here. That has helped immensely in the process of negotiation. We have a commitment between both Prime Ministers, both security agencies. The issue of social and economic development is not really for South Thailand but also for North Malaysia, the Malay Peninsula. It is bilateral and also the triangle which involves part of Indonesia. I can’t say for now, but from the meeting, this is the most frank, most forthcoming and the commitment to proceed to ensure that there is a special sort of effort to enhance bilateral relations, border security, avoiding smuggling, trade, investment, joint development, cultural, education. It has been so positive and I am very encouraged.
Q: In the press conference, you said peace in the South of Thailand is paramount, by doing all means necessary, what do you mean by that?
A: We have to listen to them and listen to those in charge in Bangkok and the deal on this specific issue. Everyone talks about peace, everyone talks about justice, but you can listen to grievances and deal with it specifically, but again, on top of all these is social economic development. People will be busy, development busy with their jobs and at the same time their interests in minority groups, by religious group as part of the Thai context, is expected. I told PM Prayuth that, in Malaysia we also have to make that departure. I don’t want any citizen be they Buddhist, Muslim, Christians or Hindu, to feel that they are marginalised in anyway. In my exchanges, not only with the DPM and ministers, I sense that there is a ray of hope, people want to develop our country, and therefore we want to have excellent relations with our neighbors. It is a common border, it is no joke. Unfortunately, the border areas for us, for Malaysia, are relatively poor areas and the same with Thailand. Our common resolve is to uplift. There is a misunderstanding that it is the issue of the South of Thailand, I said it is also north of Malaysia and the Peninsula. So, if it is a joint effort, it will help.
ASEAN and Myanmar
Q: In addition to issue of Southern Thailand, what else can the two countries do more to step up bilateral relations?
A: There is a problem in dealing with Myanmar, which is more problematic for Thailand because of common borders. You are dealing with the military junta that does not care about the plight of human rights, killings and rights of minorities. I told my Thai counterparts that we also have a problem because 200,000 refugees are in Malaysia. We can’t cope. The solution is not to give them better housing, medical facilities. The solution is in Myanmar. It might be by solving military regime. We can’t see that the whole of ASEAN has no influence or say because, if we do give that signal, the Europeans, the Americans and the Chinese will claim their rights. That’s my view, though I have to humbly consider myself junior in this regional leadership. So, I have to speak and persuade other more senior leaders.
Q: You mean that you are a newcomer? Do you believe in your ability to convince other leaders? You met with the leaders of Brunei, Indonesia, Singapore and now Thailand. Can they be on the same page on Myanmar?
A: So far, we are getting closer. It is not for me to convince them, they share with me too. We are talking about 4 decades of a conflict, which does not seem likely to be resolved in the near future, unless ASEAN probably revises its strategy. That will have to be discussed.
Q: Do you still believe in the ASEAN way and constructive engagement?
A: Yes and no. There is also a strength in dialogue and negotiation, but the ASEAN way has been extremely productive in dealing with many other issues, negotiating, tolerance like that, but the ASEAN way needs to be revised when it comes to Myanmar, because constructive engagement has not been working.
Q: What’s your plan to revise it as a newcomer?
A: As a newcomer, I will have to listen to my other colleagues. I do acknowledge that there is a problem. Our previous attempt to resolve it does not seem to work, things have got worse. You can’t say it is (only) an internal problem of Myanmar because it is affecting us. Affecting Thailand badly because of the borders, refugees are worse in Malaysia, refugees are affecting Indonesia. So, we will have to, as Indonesia is taking the lead. Probably, in the next 2-4 weeks, I will talk to President Jokowi and give him my views on what has happened and seek his wisdom in formulating some new strategy.
Q: Do you still think ASEAN should stick with the 5 point consensus on the Myanmar crisis?
A: Well, the 5-point consensus is surely the beginning.
Q: Will ASEAN have to stick to this path?
A: This path is not cast in stone, which means there should be a broad parameter that could expand. I will leave it for my wise foreign minister to work with his colleagues and advise us in return.
Politics in Malaysia
Q: Dr. Mahathir Mohamad said just recently that he could not figure out why he lost in the election, do you have an answer for him?
A: No, I think we should leave him alone. He has done his part, but he also committed many blunders and, for now, I think the country has to move on and, at the right time, they will even move on beyond Anwar. We have to accept this reality, the sooner myself, him or anybody accepts the fact that we have a role, but we have got to read the signals, when it is done, it is done.
Q: You brand your government as one of “national unity,” an unlikely coalition of PH and UMNO leading Barisan Nasional and other parties, what’s the main challenge for you as the conductor of this coalition government?
A: We are living in post-normal time as you know, unanticipated. There is something developing, simultaneous, sometimes spontaneous and would require some ingenuity in resolving many problems. Now, look at Malaysia, where is the problem? Political instability will kill the country politically and economically. For the last few years nothing seems to move, no policy, no direction and, because of that, leaders will take the chance to squander as much as possible. So, we have been at loggerheads, sometimes viciously I think, between PH and the UMNO lead coalition of BN, but what was the consensus? That it is enough. We agree that we need stability. We agree that we need to chart a new future for the country. We agree on good governance and leading the country out of corruption and we agree that this is a country that is not racial. A strong Malay-based (society) to address the Malays’ concerns, but to be able to embrace and include all races, this is the parameter on which we agree and the strong coalition and partners in Saba and Sarawak will form a very formidable alliance with a two thirds majority, which makes Malaysia one of the most stable countries in ASEAN.
Q: What are the risks that you can see in the near future?
A: No reason to disbelieve this, there is no real risk. Of course, there are some desperate voices that we will lose in 3 months, in 6 months, we buy this and buy that. I don’t see that it is a problem right now.
Q: With the issue of corruption, the fight against which you highlight as the main mission of your government, people must be wondering how you will deal with the deputy prime minister, because he faces many charges of corruption.
A: So far, to give him credit, he has not interfered in the process. We have to watch the process. He never asks me to withdraw the case. The point is that good governance is the agenda, he has to go through the process. I don’t think we should demonise a person when the system is also corrupt, when those in opposition shout corruption, yelling daily about corruption but award 100 million worth of contacts to their sons and sons-in-law and the cronies. So, I said if you want to deal with it, do it with transparency.
Q: As Prime Minister, do you really have time to think back and see what really happened to you to bring you to this very juncture?
A: It is too long, you are suggesting this means I am too old. No, I think it is important that when you are entrusted with the job, you have to continue to deliver. We have been waiting for too long, then make full use of the time to deliver the good and the effective and give some real hope. Malaysia can do much more, Malaysia should be able to encourage all citizens to have a clear direction and hope and I think that is my preoccupation. Get the right team, get the right policy and implement to the best of our ability.
Malaysian Prime Minister Anwar Ibrahim has a bold plan to rid his country of corruption and turn its economy around, starting with Elon Musk
September 1, 2023 at 1:43 AM GMT+8
Anwar Ibrahim, Prime Minister of Malaysia, speaking to Fortune on August 24, 2023.
PHOTOGRAPH BY IAN TEH FOR FORTUNE
For Anwar Ibrahim, the 25-year path to becoming Malaysia’s prime minister was at times “torture.”
His ascent initially seemed as if it would be swift when he was named deputy prime minister in the early 1990s, supporting his onetime mentor, Mahathir Mohamad. But when that relationship soured, Anwar found himself sacked, beaten, and ultimately imprisoned for nearly a decade on bogus charges of corruption and sodomy. (It is a criminal offense to be gay in the Muslim-majority country.)
Anwar joined forces again with Mahathir in 2018 following the multibillion-dollar 1MDB scandal, in which over $4 billion was stolen from the Malaysian sovereign wealth fund, aided by a former Goldman Sachs managing director. Although the investment bank paid a settlement for its involvement, Anwar is still fighting to get the rest of the money back from the Wall Street giant. The scandal had brought down then–Prime Minister Najib Razak, and Mahathir returned to power in hopes of getting Malaysia back on track. But the country went through years of political instability afterward, with multiple leaders being elected and ousted in rapid succession while its economy slumped amid weakening exports and a global slowdown.
In November 2022, the Malaysian king named Anwar as the country’s 10th prime minister after a deadlocked vote in a historic election. Yet soon after, Anwar faced another test: A state election on Aug. 12, involving six of Malaysia’s 13 states, which turned out a mixed early verdict. Although the outcome was generally predicted, the opposition made up ground in some key areas.
Now 76, Anwar has much to do to maintain stability and improve Malaysia’s economic world standing. Fortune editor-in-chief Alyson Shontell sat down with him in Ipoh in late August to discuss his bold 10-year plan for the country. It has multiple pillars, including becoming a top 30 economy worldwide, increasing the percentage of women in the workforce, and climbing to higher rankings on the Global Competitiveness Index, the Corruption Perceptions Index, and the Human Development Index.
Much of the plan‘s success hinges on persuading large global companies to bring high-paying jobs to Malaysia, which hopes to position itself as an attractive supply-chain solution. Anwar recently struck an impactful deal with Elon Musk to bring Starlink and Tesla opportunities into the country and hopes more deals will follow. But he will need to also convince these leaders that his government is stable enough to stay in power and see his vision through.
The interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity.
Alyson Shontell: Prime Minister, it is a pleasure to be here with you today. Nine months ago, you won a historic election in Malaysia to become the 10th prime minister of the country. Congratulations. Two weeks ago, there was another set of elections that some said was going to be your first big test. How do you feel the results went?
Anwar Ibrahim: We managed to sustain the level of support, particularly in the key states, the three economically thriving states, as opposed to the more rural hinterland that we lost to the more conservative Islamic party. I thought that is a clear signal that the government is stable, and we are here for the next four years.
And that, in and of itself, is significant. As you know better than anybody, it’s been a tumultuous past few years for Malaysia. It’s been a tumultuous path for you to be in the seat that you’re in today—about 25 years in the making, a decade of that spent in jail for things that you say did not do, that would not be crimes, frankly, in other parts of the world. What from that experience has prepared you to be prime minister? And how did it change you as a person?
With 25 years in and out of jail, there’s a learning curve. I think you become more mature, patient, and saner in this world full of insanity. And I think I’ve learned immensely about freedom, patience, and about economic policies. I would like to focus effectively on how to contribute to this country and make it vibrant and great again.
There were moments when you didn’t feel as if you would survive, and friends even asked you, “Why would you go back into government? You might be thrown back in jail. It could be disastrous.” Why? Why, in that moment, did you decide, “I’m going to give this another shot, and I’m going to be prime minister.”
It’s interesting because I had a long conversation after I was released, at the invitation of Nelson Mandela. We were talking about how mad, or quite insane we are, or crazy. So we reached a consensus: We are not insane, but certainly we’re quite crazy. Because we believe we have a sense of conviction, we believed it was best for people, for our country, and the country deserved better, essentially. That propelled us to work harder and be really determined in the face of adversities. And I’m not exaggerating, it was a tough period not just for me; my wife, my family, and my colleagues suffered immensely, too.
But after all this, this is probably part of the [challenge I] wanted to accept because we’re talking about effecting change. I’m against a system with endemic corruption, with authoritarian traits. So it’s not going to be an easy feat. And you accept the fact that you are actually trying to change the system, how things should be different. Naturally, it would be at the expense of the ruling clique or elite. But now at least we can see this ray of hope for the country. There is stability. There is clarity in economic policy and a general acceptance by the public that in order to evolve as a successful country, we must effect real change and reform in this country.
As you mentioned, and you’ve said before, corruption has been endemic to this country, and a big opening to allow you to be in the prime minister seat today was the 1MDB scandal that prior administrations had been caught up with, and that you’re now trying to settle with Goldman still. How much of a setback for Malaysia do you feel that incident was, and how do you plan to get the money back from Goldman?
In a sense it was a major setback because the perception always has been negative. I was in New York some years back, and the only thing they asked us about Malaysia was 1MDB, or they’d say that Malaysia is essentially a very corrupt country. So we have to really say to them: “Look, we have a different set of leaders, a different set of policies, and we are quite determined to change and rid the country of corruption.”
Given it’s been about eight months, we have been quite successful. No negotiated tenders, which has been the practice. No issue of commissions through procurements of military recruitment from foreign countries.
It can be done, but you have to be really tough and at times quite unpopular. If there are clear signs of determination and policies following through, then I think generally the international community can accept that they can follow it.
That is why in the three or four months, there’s suddenly this mushrooming of investments from the United States, Europe, and from China. Huge numbers coming in, and they see it as a change, ease of doing business, clarity of policy, and transparent in terms of our implementation.
You’ve outlined a big plan for Malaysia over the next 10 years called the Madani Economy. It has a number of parts to it, but the overall picture, as you said in a recent speech, is “We’re caught in a vicious cycle of high costs, low wages, low profits, and a lack of competitiveness.” Where do you start? What steps do you need to take today to reach the ambitious goals you have for Malaysia in the next 10 years?
First there must be clarity in the policy they see. For example, we are talking about the industrial master plan. Must it be the old approach of sectoral or mission approach? Do you have to stimulate this one entity or [something] geographically different? These issues will be addressed if there’s clarity, and then ease of doing business.
In the last few months, I haven’t found difficulty in getting investors to come in. We will facilitate the approvals. So if that can happen, then naturally the issues we talk about will be resolved. Of course, it will take time and effort. You ask most of these companies, American companies from IT, say, Dell in the past, or Elon Musk at the present, or a company in China. All of them, almost without exception, will see that we have first-class professional engineers. What we lack is probably the issue of governance, issue of clarity, and issue of ease of doing business.
So it is partly the responsibility of authorities in the government to make the necessary changes, accelerate the process of approvals, and, at the same time, to give the additional niche training to what is being required in that area, where we are still deemed to be rather lacking.
A big foreign deal was Elon Musk committing to doing quite a bit here with Tesla and Starlink. Those negotiations were relatively fast. Indonesia had been courting Musk for a long time, and yet he chose Malaysia. What did you say to Musk? How did you get that done?
As much as I know about him, he knows a bit about me. So I said, “Look, I’ve suffered immensely in the past. Now I’ve been given this opportunity. I’m in business. I want to effect the change, and I want to now do whatever is necessary. I love my country, and I think it has huge potential and capacity.” And I made it clear and blunt to him to say that he does not need to worry about all the other nitty-gritty, bureaucratic encumbrances that he may face in dealing with some other countries.
The other thing is that he knows the history of this country. And even in SpaceX, he has three major companies engaging in the operations of space in terms of the spare parts, so he can gauge our potential. What was lacking then resulted from clear policy and commitments by leadership, and [that is where] we have complemented them. And of course, I’m exceedingly pleased that they came up with a very fast decision and set up their regional office here.
Are there other deals like that in the works? I assume you’re talking to many Western companies.
Yes. Infineon, for example, came in with the decision about a month and a half ago by the board, 5 billion euros to expand in Malaysia and the biggest single investment outside Germany. And then Geely from China, they are starting an automobile city in the state in the south of this province, which is ongoing. They’ve got about 1,000 of their Chinese professionals in the operation already. And they know, not just me, the whole team knows once you’re committed, we cannot give the impression that we are laid-back or we’re not doing anything, and we must [do] whatever is necessary to make sure that this process goes at a fast pace.
So there’s a bit of a dilemma. Part of the goal is to get more foreign companies to come into Malaysia, and China is also a big partner. And, of course, China and the U.S. are not getting along. How do you plan to position Malaysia when you’re sandwiched between the two and you need both?
Thus far we don’t have that much of a problem. We engage and we maintain. China is a major player in terms of investments, in terms of neighborly relations. Trade is a major player. And I explained to my colleagues in the States: “Look, it’s an important neighbor. It’s not a zero-sum game as far as we’re concerned.” And the [U.S.] has a long tradition of cultivating friendship for decades, and also they know the track record of our country. Some of the biggest major players have been here, even the traditional ones like Motorola, Intel, in the past, and they know our capacity. And I think we should then use this to our advantage.
We are a small country. We’re not here to try to broker a deal with the United States and China. We know that, and they know. We make it very clear. I’ve engaged with [Antony] Blinken and [John] Kerry recently, and, of course, Xi Jinping and Li Qiang in China, and continue to communicate by making very clear our approaches and what is imperative in Malaysia.
Another part of the Madani Economy plan is to get more women in the workforce. There’s a goal of getting to 60% participation. How do you plan to do that? Is it overhauling education? Is it systemic? How are you going to improve those numbers?
Beyond moral suasion is a clear policy against any form of discrimination that happens to be taking place. In universities, with more than 50% female students, there’s no reason why they cannot be accommodated. Of course, I’m a bit biased. I have six children, five girls.
And a very powerful wife [who was the country’s first female deputy prime minister].
And a powerful wife. But I think, to be fair, it will be of immense help to the country. This group of people has not been fully utilized. Many brilliant people of professional qualifications are not given the opportunity. So there must be a clear policy to encourage it in politics and management, in the private sector, and more so in government service.
What about within your own cabinet? There’s only a few women. Do you have plans to add more?
Yes, but, of course, the cabinet we started off with is relatively smaller. Although in terms of the historic antecedents, it’s quite prominent and has given key positions [to women]. In the past it was women affairs and welfare. Now we’re in education and health, which to me is very good that two key ministries are held by women. But I agree. I concede the fact that we need to then expose and give opportunity to more women, not only in a political leadership positions, but in professional, managerial positions.
So quite a bit to do. As we said at the beginning, it’s been 25 years of waiting for this, and now is your time to take Malaysia where you want it to go. Do you worry about failure?
It’s interesting, Alyson, I didn’t actually think too much about the possibility of failure. I think we are here, we have failed in the past, and we have learned and have the humility to acknowledge our limitations in the past. And I think now is the time for us to execute. And if you do the right thing and you mean well and you know what’s rotten about the system, you have to correct it. I think there is no reason, no cause, to be unduly worried about the possibility of failure.
And what about your legacy? What do you want your legacy to be when people remember you in this position? And what do you want global leaders to think of Malaysia now?
I would make the same point. I’m not too concerned about that. But I think what is important is you do your best. And this country has this immense capacity to emerge as a viable, successful, developing economy, or emerging economy. And I think we should just focus on that. And I am quite realistic. I’m not crazy. Although, as I’ve said earlier with Mandela, we do acknowledge the both of us are quite crazy. But the capacity is enormous. We have been here effectively just six months, and you can see the trend, the focus, the interests of the Republic. The general affinity and discipline among the public. The interest by foreign investors, and even on general issues of governance, there is a shift. And I think if we can continue and sustain this effort, we can strive. - Fortune
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